Will we conclude Tesla launched level 4 robotaxis in summer 2025?
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Elon Musk has been very explicit in promising a robotaxi launch in Austin in June with unsupervised full self-driving (FSD). We'll give him some leeway on the timing and say this counts as a YES if it happens by the end of August.

As of April 2025, Tesla seems to be testing this with employees and with supervised FSD and doubling down on the public Austin launch.

PS: A big monkey wrench no one anticipated when we created this market is how to treat the passenger-seat safety monitors. See FAQ9 for how we're trying to handle that in a principled way. Tesla is very polarizing and I know it's "obvious" to one side that safety monitors = "supervised" and that it's equally obvious to the other side that the driver's seat being empty is what matters. I can't emphasize enough how not obvious any of this is. At least so far, speaking now in August 2025.

FAQ

1. Does it have to be a public launch?

Yes, but we won't quibble about waitlists. As long as even 10 non-handpicked members of the public have used the service by the end of August, that's a YES. Also if there's a waitlist, anyone has to be able to get on it and there has to be intent to scale up. In other words, Tesla robotaxis have to be actually becoming a thing, with summer 2025 as when it started.

If it's invite-only and Tesla is hand-picking people, that's not a public launch. If it's viral-style invites with exponential growth from the start, that's likely to be within the spirit of a public launch.

A potential litmus test is whether serious journalists and Tesla haters end up able to try the service.

UPDATE: We're deeming this to be satisfied.

2. What if there's a human backup driver in the driver's seat?

This importantly does not count. That's supervised FSD.

3. But what if the backup driver never actually intervenes?

Compare to Waymo, which goes millions of miles between [injury-causing] incidents. If there's a backup driver we're going to presume that it's because interventions are still needed, even if rarely.

4. What if it's only available for certain fixed routes?

That would resolve NO. It has to be available on unrestricted public roads [restrictions like no highways is ok] and you have to be able to choose an arbitrary destination. I.e., it has to count as a taxi service.

5. What if it's only available in a certain neighborhood?

This we'll allow. It just has to be a big enough neighborhood that it makes sense to use a taxi. Basically anything that isn't a drastic restriction of the environment.

6. What if they drop the robotaxi part but roll out unsupervised FSD to Tesla owners?

This is unlikely but if this were level 4+ autonomy where you could send your car by itself to pick up a friend, we'd call that a YES per the spirit of the question.

7. What about level 3 autonomy?

Level 3 means you don't have to actively supervise the driving (like you can read a book in the driver's seat) as long as you're available to immediately take over when the car beeps at you. This would be tantalizingly close and a very big deal but is ultimately a NO. My reason to be picky about this is that a big part of the spirit of the question is whether Tesla will catch up to Waymo, technologically if not in scale at first.

8. What about tele-operation?

The short answer is that that's not level 4 autonomy so that would resolve NO for this market. This is a common misconception about Waymo's phone-a-human feature. It's not remotely (ha) like a human with a VR headset steering and braking. If that ever happened it would count as a disengagement and have to be reported. See Waymo's blog post with examples and screencaps of the cars needing remote assistance.

To get technical about the boundary between a remote human giving guidance to the car vs remotely operating it, grep "remote assistance" in Waymo's advice letter filed with the California Public Utilities Commission last month. Excerpt:

The Waymo AV [autonomous vehicle] sometimes reaches out to Waymo Remote Assistance for additional information to contextualize its environment. The Waymo Remote Assistance team supports the Waymo AV with information and suggestions [...] Assistance is designed to be provided quickly - in a mater of seconds - to help get the Waymo AV on its way with minimal delay. For a majority of requests that the Waymo AV makes during everyday driving, the Waymo AV is able to proceed driving autonomously on its own. In very limited circumstances such as to facilitate movement of the AV out of a freeway lane onto an adjacent shoulder, if possible, our Event Response agents are able to remotely move the Waymo AV under strict parameters, including at a very low speed over a very short distance.

Tentatively, Tesla needs to meet the bar for autonomy that Waymo has set. But if there are edge cases where Tesla is close enough in spirit, we can debate that in the comments.

9. What about human safety monitors in the passenger seat?

Oh geez, it's like Elon Musk is trolling us to maximize the ambiguity of these market resolutions. Tentatively (we'll keep discussing in the comments) my verdict on this question depends on whether the human safety monitor has to be eyes-on-the-road the whole time with their finger on a kill switch or emergency brake. If so, I believe that's still level 2 autonomy. Or sub-4 in any case.

See also FAQ3 for why this matters even if a kill switch is never actually used. We need there not only to be no actual disengagements but no counterfactual disengagements. Like imagine that these robotaxis would totally mow down a kid who ran into the road. That would mean a safety monitor with an emergency brake is necessary, even if no kids happen to jump in front of any robotaxis before this market closes. Waymo, per the definition of level 4 autonomy, does not have that kind of supervised self-driving.

10. Will we ultimately trust Tesla if it reports it's genuinely level 4?

I want to avoid this since I don't think Tesla has exactly earned our trust on this. I believe the truth will come out if we wait long enough, so that's what I'll be inclined to do. If the truth seems impossible for us to ascertain, we can consider resolve-to-PROB.

11. Will we trust government certification that it's level 4?

Yes, I think this is the right standard. Elon Musk said on 2025-07-09 that Tesla was waiting on regulatory approval for robotaxis in California and expected to launch in the Bay Area "in a month or two". I'm not sure what such approval implies about autonomy level but I expect it to be evidence in favor. (And if it starts to look like Musk was bullshitting, that would be evidence against.)

12. What if it's still ambiguous on August 31?

Then we'll extend the market close. The deadline for Tesla to meet the criteria for a launch is August 31 regardless. We just may need more time to determine, in retrospect, whether it counted by then. I suspect that with enough hindsight the ambiguity will resolve. Note in particular FAQ1 which says that Tesla robotaxis have to be becoming a thing (what "a thing" is is TBD but something about ubiquity and availability) with summer 2025 as when it started. Basically, we may need to look back on summer 2025 and decide whether that was a controlled demo, done before they actually had level 4 autonomy, or whether they had it and just were scaling up slowing and cautiously at first.

13. If safety monitors are still present, say, a year later, is there any way for this to resolve YES?

No, that's well past the point of presuming that Tesla had not achieved level 4 autonomy in summer 2025.

14. What if they ditch the safety monitors after August 31st but tele-operation is still a question mark?

We'll also need transparency about tele-operation and disengagements. If that doesn't happen soon after August 31 (definition of "soon" to be determined) then that too is a presumed NO.


Ask more clarifying questions! I'll be super transparent about my thinking and will make sure the resolution is fair if I have a conflict of interest due to my position in this market.

[Ignore any auto-generated clarifications below this line. I'll add to the FAQ as needed.]

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Austin hours of service expanded

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@dreev "Anyway, I think the big question mark we're waiting to resolve (before resolving this market) is whether what Tesla launched this summer in Austin counts as unsupervised, by which we mean level 4. If humans, remote or in person, are monitoring in real-time and can intervene in real time (even if just hitting a button on the passenger door) then I'd interpret

that as supervision."

I'm not sure why you don't think the several videos and reports of the safety monitor hitting the emergency stop button meets this threshold. Confirmation that the door opening button was used as an emergency stop remains unrebutted and to me qualifies as real time monitoring and intervention. I'd suggest, though, if you do feel it's necessary to keep this market open that you make a decision either way after the Q3 Tesla meeting. We're unlikely to get any helpful government disclosures about interventions anytime soon enough to be helpful for this market beyond that.

@WrongoPhD I'm loath to commit to resolving that soon but am happy to commit to a deadline if there's a consensus on when it should be. @MarkosGiannopoulos makes a case for April in a recent comment.

PS: Does everyone know about Manifold's loan feature, so your mana (mostly) isn't tied up in this market while waiting for it to resolve?

@dreev My understanding is that Texas still won't require reporting interventions in April, so I'm not sure what waiting until April gets you. Again, what is your argument against concluding the safety monitors interventions that we already know about qualify as "humans, remote or in person, are monitoring in real-time and can intervene in real time (even if just hitting a button on the passenger door) then I'd interpret

that as supervision."

@WrongoPhD Do we have a smoking gun on the passenger door button? I saw a video where a YouTuber said he heard the door open/shut, but (a) I couldn't tell from the video myself, and (b) it was a contrived situation and I'm not totally sure whether it would count.

I do think we have a lot of circumstantial evidence for NO but I'd feel better waiting to be sure.

The Robotaxi app is out of beta and available in the US for anyone to download. The waiting list process is now part of the app.

@MarkosGiannopoulos I'm failing to replicate this so far. Still says it's invite-only. Maybe it's not working on Android yet?

(Of course, even if I get the app and am officially "on a waitlist", they're gonna need more than 10-20 cars for this to mean a lot. I might be tempted to visit Austin to try it though, if I do get through the waitlist.)

bought Ṁ10 YES at 5%

@dreev Android «soon» from what I understand. iOS only for now.

@dreev People in both California and Austin seem to be getting access via the app. You need to buy an iPhone :D

The official account confirms they are letting more people on the service but no word on the number of vehicles.

Update: Tesla is now doing paid rides on highways in Texas, with a safety driver.

@dreev For consideration: Waymo reported (not validated) incidents on the official Texas site, 19 for June-July https://www.austintexas.gov/page/autonomous-vehicles

Tesla: 1

Waymo has about 100 cars as of May 2025 in Austin https://s23.q4cdn.com/407969754/files/doc_events/2025/May/07/uber-q1-25-earnings-call-transcript.pdf

Another expansion of the area in Austin

And a few more cars (probably around 20 now)

Duplicate

@WrongoPhD Are you suggesting that potentially half of their initial 10-15 cars were damaged, and now they are back to 7-8? The message is straightforward: yesterday, they expanded both their operational area and the number of cars in operation.

Tesla announced a certain number of miles on the Q2 earnings call, which was about 4 weeks after the launch date. The low number does not have to be just about the number of cars, but also operating hours and the number of people they gave access to.

@MarkosGiannopoulos "The low number does not have to be just about the number of cars, but also operating hours and the number of people they gave access to. "

This is exactly my point. The low number of miles suggests that despite having a fleet of 11 cars, most were not in operation most of the time. Rephrased, probably only some of the cars were available.

I don't think it's obvious that increasing the "cars available" means increasing the fleet size. It could also mean the cars they do have will be available for more hours. The phrasing is confusing, and it's weird to give a specific number change of area covered (173 sq miles) but a confusing percentage increase for cars availability.

@WrongoPhD it seems you don’t trust anything Tesla says so you end up nitpicking on the definition of “available”.

@MarkosGiannopoulos I just think the wording is unclear. I don't particularly think the size of the service area or number or taxis is particularly relevant to this market, nor do I think its a good surrogate to Tesla's progress towards achieving L4, so it's not a huge deal either way, but it's just so bizarre that the area is specific to the single digit but the taxi availability is in so ambiguous.

@WrongoPhD The area of operations is available in the Robotaxi app and, therefore, quite easy to calculate. And of course, it's a nice metric for Tesla's social media intern to brag about.

As for relevancy, a larger area of operations allows for more opportunities to encounter difficulties (such as highways and airport traffic) and demonstrate efficiency.

What if there's secretly a person from India driving the robotaxi through Mechanical Turk?

(I'm only half joking, Amazon did this with their no checkout shop.)

@uair01 Yeah, if they're doing anything even remotely (haha) like that then that wouldn't be level 4 autonomy. See https://agifriday.substack.com/p/waymo for the Waymo comparison.

Both of the last 2 robotaxi videos on YT show safety driver thumbs on the door button (speculated to be an emergency stop button when robotaxi active). If the speculation is correct, and nothing has changed since the YT vids were recorded, then based on the resolution criteria for this market, I think this means we need to see evidence of a stop to this behaviour in the next 9 days?

https://youtu.be/MX-G0cmnUPI?si=uMqLYu-hbKk0DH4k&t=25
https://youtu.be/RnrgVkoj334?si=rSGRdnR4WOkFR8YK&t=6

@angusb I can't tell much from those videos. As Tesla scales this up, at some point that button may actually get used, if that's what the button is, and then we'd know for sure.

"What's wrong with an extra layer of safety?"

Nothing, but the benchmark we're using for level 4 autonomy is Waymo. Tesla might be there! There are two ways to know: (1) Humans being out of the real-time safety loop, as they are for Waymo. (2) Tesla having a rate of human intervention on par with Waymo's actual crash rate. For the latter, it'll take way more miles from Tesla.

"Doesn't Tesla have billions of miles of data from FSD in private cars?"

Yes but the intervention rate, though steadily going down, is not near Waymo's incident rate.

@dreev @angusb Here is confirmation that the door opening button is being used as an emergency stop

https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=815&v=OVqIkyDtxxo&feature=youtu.be

@WrongoPhD Wow! That's a big deal. I think that that Youtuber is staunchly pro-Tesla too.

@dreev thanks for the response

> (2) Tesla having a rate of human intervention on par with Waymo's actual crash rate. For the latter, it'll take way more miles from Tesla.

...are you saying that even if the thumb door button behaviour persists (and we accept it's an emergency stop button), this could still resolve YES if we eventually get data that interventions were as low or lower than Waymo's? Don't FAQ 3 + 9 override this?

@angusb Ah, yes, I don't mean to alter the criteria. This evidence of an emergency stop button should make this market price fall. And I think it's very unlikely that data will materialize vindicating Tesla on this. Just that for the letter and spirit to fully match, we're presuming Tesla wouldn't use this supervision if they could safely do it unsupervised.

In any case, you're right. Literally unsupervised is baked into the resolution criteria here. So if this is correct that the safety monitors have their finger on an emergency stop button, they'll need to be gone by August 31 or we're looking at an automatic NO.

@dreev got you 👍

P.s. thanks for putting so much thought into the criteria!